Elf 77 Joined: 2001-06-21 Posts: 216 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
.....why do "care" so much about them that you want to liberate them from brutal dictators? Or is that reason just plain bullsh*t?
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NorCalFeet Joined: 2006-09-28 Posts: 508 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Elf..it's what the media wants you to hear.We're not over there "liberating" anything. | ||
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lexiluvr Joined: 2000-10-17 Posts: 1,003 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Yes we are....one VERY important fact that few mention is that there is a HUGE difference between Muslims and Radical Islam. The war is against the radicals...the ones that declared war on us and most of the western world. I have read that of the 1.2 billion Muslims in world about 15% are the radical/extremists (which is about 180 million). The moderate Muslim is actually the main targets of the radicals. There lies the rub.....how does one differentiate between a moderate and an extremist without the extremist blowing up a school full of young kafirs for his jihad? That is the million dollar question.
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manning1 Joined: 2002-04-24 Posts: 1,441 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
there is a HUGE difference between Muslims and Radical Islam. The war is against the radicalsThe ever growing threat has a lot to do with foreign intervention. When Israel attacked Lebanon in the recent past I was disgusted by Israel and there military methods. Well done thats just going to anger ordinary Muslims even more and destabilize the area. When are you going to wake up and understand that the real tyrants are not always the Muslims extremists! Here is a few things you should know before you start blaming Muslims all the time.           | ||
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Robert1899 Joined: 2004-07-08 Posts: 571 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
@ lexilvr: Our western media has a very strange defintion of what´s "radical islam" and what´s "moderate islam". Saudi Arabia is usually called a "moderate arab state", simply because it´s an US-ally, but have You ever read about law and society in Allah´s own country? If not, here´s a Wikipedia-article to begin with. Repression, discrimination and ignorance can´t be any worse in Iran.
And even the Taliban where considered to be "freedom fighters" by western media the 80s, because at that time they were only killing russian soldiers (and anyone who tried to teach girls how to read and write). Do You really think that their islam was less radical at that tome? By the way, I wonder if this Hollywood-propaganda-film is still shown on american TV ... *g* | ||
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lexiluvr Joined: 2000-10-17 Posts: 1,003 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Robert1899 wrote: No...I disagree. I think the definition is very clear and un-strange. What IS strange is people like you. Have you ever listened to any of the rantings from the mullahs that preach the hate? | ||
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Robert1899 Joined: 2004-07-08 Posts: 571 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
lexiluvr wrote:
And even after Cold War was over, western governments hesitated to blacklist the anti-russian djihardists in Cechenya as terrorists (the US-government waited until 2003). Instead, in 1999/2000 both, Clinton and Bush, critized the russian government for it´s actions in the Second Cechen War ... a war which was taking place after the Cechen rebells had assassinated several people, expelled parts of the christian-russian minority and introduced the Sharia-law to the province. Look, Cechenya is to Russia, what the Iraq is to US: a province rich of oil, but also full of muslim rebells. Now, whether these muslims are classified as "radical" (= evil) or as "moderate" (= neutral or good) by our governemts and media has little to with theology or their social agenda or their degree of violence. It´s very simple: If the muslim combattants are fighting in "our" oil-province, they are "radical muslims", but if they are causing trouble in our enemy´s oil-province they are "moderate muslims". *g* | ||
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Elf 77 Joined: 2001-06-21 Posts: 216 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
one VERY important fact that few mention is that there is a HUGE difference between Muslims and Radical Islam. The war is against the radicals No, the war WOULD have been against the radicals had we done the right thing and kept the Taliban and Al Qaeda CONTAINED in Afghanistan. If we killed or captured Osama Bin Laden and finished off his band of terrorists and deranged and backwards supporters in the Taliban, we would be MUCH safer. The world would see that the United States was genuine about rebuilding Afghanistan. Instead we went after an ENEMY OF RADICAL ISLAM, Saddam Hussein, who was once our ally. Saddam Hussein did our bidding and we gave him weapons to fight fundamentalist Iran in the 1980s. Saddam was oppressive and stamped out radical Shi'ite extremism within Iraq, and women in Iraq under Saddam were well treated and not treated like second-class citizens as they are under the Shi'ites who wield great power in post-Saddam Iraq. And, instead of containing Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, we allowed them to survive in Afghanistan and spread out into Iraq and Pakistan. We allowed them to thrive so much, that now, if we killed Osama Bin Laden, it would hardly make a difference. He may not be irrelevant in the sense that he could still plan and implement major terrorist plots, but he IS irrelevant in the sense that it would not hurt Al Qaeda much if Bin Laden were put out of commission. If we got him when we had the chance, it would have been much more siginificant and damaging to Al Qaeda. The US has done much to earn the hatred of much of the Middle East: Iran: in the 1950s, Iranians DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED Pres. Mossadegh. The British and Americans plotted to overthrow Mossadegh and installed the repressive Shah, who was subsequently overthrown by the Iranian Revolution who put in place the fundamentalist Shi'ite govt. that rules Iran today The decades-long neglect of the plight of the Palestinians and the shunning of the democratically elected Hamas AFTER THE US CALLED ON ARABS TO EMBRACE DEMOCRACY! Democracy? Or Hypocrisy? Allowing Israel to bomb the sh*t out of innocent civilian areas in Lebanon in 2006, and rejecting calls for a cease fire while the majority of the people who died in the Hezbollah-Israel war were Lebanese civilians. Arming and supporting Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda & the Taliban--both of whom became our enemies when they outlived their usefulness. This is why THEY hate us! The real question is why do WE HATE THEM so much, when it was US who started the fire. | ||
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Wotan Joined: 2000-04-17 Posts: 466 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Elf 77 wrote: But - but - but ... Why would they do such a thing ??? Their Cause was Right, G-d was on their Side I'm confused * head explodes *  [...] Oops, sorry, I forgot. You shouldn't trust JooToob. There's nothing but BS in there - no quality control whatsoever No post-production, no make-up, nothing ... Oh, the Yoomanity ! | ||
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Robert1899 Joined: 2004-07-08 Posts: 571 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Speaking of Brzinski in an an interview he admitted - well, rather: proudly stated - that the USA had started arming the radical muslims in Afganistan even before the Soviet intervention.
And speaking of Youtube, I found this funny little scene from 1982, where Raegan honored the Mujahedeen. | ||
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lexiluvr Joined: 2000-10-17 Posts: 1,003 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
The US has certainly meddled into other nations affairs...that is true. I am sure at the time it seemed like a good idea and in reality it probably is a good idea when some tyrant or handline extremist comes into power in a strategically important area of the world...that can cause mass instability to a region and the world. | ||
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Robert1899 Joined: 2004-07-08 Posts: 571 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
But the US did ally with Osama...and at the time he was not an enemy. I guess the crystal ball wasn't working so they couldn't foresee the future. They couldn´t foresee the consequences the rise of the Mujaheeen would have for american citizens 20 years later, but they surely knew what consequences it would have for the afgan people! Those so-called "freedom fighters" were actually fightng against literacy, against secularist education, against dropping small farmers dept, against women´s liberation ect. and they were determind to kill all unbelievers. Anyone who was familiar with the afgan affairs must have been aware of that, but the decision makers on the american side simply didn´t care about what would happen to the afgan people, they only care about "giving the USSR it´s Vietnam". | ||
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lexiluvr Joined: 2000-10-17 Posts: 1,003 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Robert1899 wrote: BINGO!!! This is the same ideology we are at war with today except they are more powerful and better organized and have greater numbers. | ||
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Robert1899 Joined: 2004-07-08 Posts: 571 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
lexiluvr wrote: "You" (the US) have overthrown a secularist regime in the Iraq, You are planning to overthrow another secularist regime in Syria and You are still calling Sauda Arabia Your ally. And allthough Russia for it´s own interest could be Your most valuable ally against the djihardists, You´ve just started a new Cold War with Russia over the eastern Europe missles defense issue. Face it, Lexiluvr, Your government has other priorities. | ||
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lexiluvr Joined: 2000-10-17 Posts: 1,003 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Robert1899 wrote: Calling Saddam a secularist is like calling Amadenajad a secularist. Saddam was supplying funding to al-qaeda and allowing them to recruit and train in his country. He was offering them protection and was developing WMDs so that they could use them against his enemies. How can you just casually label him as a secularist? | ||
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Robert1899 Joined: 2004-07-08 Posts: 571 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Saddam was supplying funding to al-qaeda and allowing them to recruit and train in his country. He was offering them protection and was developing WMDs so that they could use them against his enemies.LOL, even Fox-News isn´t saying this anymore. Look, both, Iraq and Syria, a multi-religious, multi-ethnical countries, that´s why bothe countries came to be governed by "baathist" regimes, regimes that try to avoid sectarian tensions and instead focuss on personality-cult, the arab language and some notions of modernisation (for example women driving cars and gettings jobs). The last things that dictators like Saddam or Assad want is the rise of international djihardism. In fact Saddam used to kill them and the Assad-Dynasty (coming from the Alawite-minority!) is suppressing them. Assad allows terrorists to prosper and strengthen under his eyes and in his country.Syria is not backing Al-Kaida, they´re backing Hisbullah and Hamas. Hisbullah and Hamas, allthough waving the banner of islam, ard not really about international djihardism, Hisbullah it´s a sectarian party within in a narrow lebanese context (just like the maronite christians or the druses).and Hamas has to do with the unsoved conflict about land-property and settlements in Israel/Palestine. Syia is backing them simply because it hopes to weaken US-influence near it´s borders; just like the USA backs Israel to have an ally in the region. That´s called geostrategy. But owerthrow Assad, then You´ll see similar ethnic/sectarian clashes like in the Iraq and Al Kaida will lots of more caves to hide in and people to recruit. . I like my chances under a western rule much better than the thought of being under the Taliban or similar despotsHow often do I have to repeat: It was Your former goverment that chose to arm the radical muslims in Afganistan. | ||
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lexiluvr Joined: 2000-10-17 Posts: 1,003 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
I never said Syria backed al-qaeda did I? You may want to study about the Baath party.....It is the equivelant of the Nazi party. http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/baath.html Saddam...the "secularist" leader... Saddam's uncle, an ardent Arab nationalist, introduced him to the world of politics. Iraq, which had been a British colony from the end of World War I until 1932, was bubbling with internal power struggles. One of the groups vying for power was the Baath Party, to which Saddam's uncle was a member. In 1957, at age 20, Saddam joined the Baath Party. He started out as a low-ranking member of the Party responsible for leading his schoolmates in rioting. However, in 1959, he was chosen to be a member of an assassination squad. On October 7, 1959, Saddam and others attempted, but failed, to assassinate the prime minister. Wanted by the Iraqi government, Saddam was forced to flee. He lived in exile in Syria for three months and then moved to Egypt where he lived for three years.
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Robert1899 Joined: 2004-07-08 Posts: 571 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
You may want to study about the Baath party.....It is the equivelant of the Nazi party. Lexiluvr, for You everybody who´s opposed to the USA´s foreign policy is an equivalent of the Nazi-Party. The Baathist movement was about 3 things:: 1.) Nation-building. As the Brits and the French pulled out, the question was, how to govern these sectarian diverse countries of Syria and Iraq.The baathists answer was not focus on religioun, and instead to create a "pan-arab" identity or referring to the pre-islamic (mesopotamian or assyian) history of their countries. That´s why there were/are unproportional many minority families involved in baathists politics (like the Assads in Syria or the sunni Saddam and the christian Aziz in Iraq). 2.) Modernisation: Many baathists leaders grew up under colonial administration and were westernized to the bone. They wanted to copy the economic success of the industrialized countries by overcoming rural/tribal society rules, by implementing state-controlled secularist schools and by giving women civil rights. That´s why under Saddam women didn´t need to hide under a veil and that´s why Assads wife (sunni while he´s alawite by the way) went to university and looks like this looks like this:  3.) Developement: A notion of social populism and an economic concept of state-intervention and indipendence from foreign investors. That´s why Assad I. was allied to the Soviet Union (while the US gave weapons to their afgan "freedom fighters"!) and that´s why currently the White house is pushing the Iraqi government to finally privatze the country´s state-owned oil industry. In fact islamist groups hate Assads secularist regime (accusing him of running an atheist, "infidel" or minority regime) and there have been major clashed between them and the Syrian governmet forces. Now I´m not saying that Assad is nice guy (and Saddam surely wasn´t), his regime is using police-state methods and sloughter like any state in the region, that´s true. But what I am saing is: Living under Assad is certainly better than living under some mullah regime. And if containment of radical islam really was the Bush Administration´s priority, then it would try to co-operate with Assad as the lesser evil. | ||
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Elf 77 Joined: 2001-06-21 Posts: 216 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Saddam indeed, WAS A SECULAR LEADER. He hated, or at least distrusted, Al Qaeda. The very reason he (supported and supplied by the U.S. during this time) went to war with Iran in the 1980s was because he deemed the fundamentalists in Iran as a threat to his rule. He feared that they would encourage the Shi'ite majority in Iraq to rise up and overthrow him, and then set up a fundamentalist theocratic government closesly allied with Iran--kind of like what is happening now in Iraq, where the pro-Iran Shi'ite groups such as Muqtada Al-Sadr's group wield the most power. Robert made a good point about women having modern rights in secularist nations such as Saddam's Iraq and Syria, where they are able to drive and have educations and jobs.
Meanwhile, we went to war to "liberate" a "democracy" like Kuwait and defend (and are still allied with) Saudi Arabia, two nations that keep women from driving and treat them as second-class citizens. Bear in mind, that Al Qaeda was born and bred in Saudi Arabia and 15 of 19 9/11 "hi-jackers" were from Saudi Arabia. Furthermore, we are allied with Pakistan which Al Qaeda and the Taliban use as a safe haven. No country in the world, not even Iran (or, as earlier implied,Saddam's Iraq) had relations with the Taliban in Afghanistan except Pakistan. And one last great question Robert touched on was, why is it okay for the US to arm to the teeth and support Israel, while it absolutely rejects Syria and Iran's right by the same token, to arm it's own allies, Hizballah, and Hamas, the legitimate democratically elected government of occupied Palestine, (not that I am in support of most of Hamas' policies)? The United States' support for Israel is in complete violation of two American laws: the U.S. Arms Control Export Act which forbids the U.S. to supply (military) support to a nation that uses those weapons against civilian populations. Whether Israel targets or doesn't target civilians (that's another argument altogether) is beside the point. It has and does use U.S. supplied weapons in civilian areas. The second of its very own laws that the U.S. disregards when it comes to Israel is the forbidding of the U.S. to do business with countries, such as Israel, that have not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. | ||
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manning1 Joined: 2002-04-24 Posts: 1,441 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
What some people don't even realize is the very fact that Saddam murdered Kurds using weapons that were supplied to him by the Americans.
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lexiluvr Joined: 2000-10-17 Posts: 1,003 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
manning1 wrote: Prove it... that is just an out and out lie. | ||
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Elf 77 Joined: 2001-06-21 Posts: 216 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Regardless of who gave him the weapons to gas the Kurds, the U.S. turned a blind eye to it when he did gas the Kurds and only used it against him as propaganda to show how much of a monster he was when it was to their convenience. The mixed-up priorities and tangled web of bloody and immoral geo-politics we weave. Maybe 9/11, though despicable and pure evil, was karma for the U.S. government's despicable and evil policies it has hypocritally pursued. It's unfortunate that many people who died on 9/11 (but not all) were innocent and paid with their lives for the government's dirty deeds.
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torrid123 Joined: 2006-04-12 Posts: 52 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
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treestump021486 Joined: 2007-07-20 Posts: 183 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
I don't hate Muslims. I hate the extremists in their religion who condone AND allow fellow Muslims to murder others in the name of Islam.
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manning1 Joined: 2002-04-24 Posts: 1,441 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
I hate the west for there arrogant aggression over the centuries and bloody murder which has led to the extremism in the first place. The west has created so many monsters out there, but the biggest monster of all is the international banks and corporations that feed off them.  | ||
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treestump021486 Joined: 2007-07-20 Posts: 183 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Don't you live in the West, you fucking hypocrite? Why don't you give everything you have to somebody who we've "exploited" since you're reaping the fruits that the rest of us have received (indirectly)? And don't give me the same old tired "evil corporations" speech.
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WileyWeasel Joined: 2003-04-23 Posts: 324 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Don't you live in the West, you fucking hypocrite? Why don't you give everything you have to somebody who we've "exploited" since you're reaping the fruits that the rest of us have received (indirectly)? Meh - It's not so much "The West" he's pointing and wagging his finger at. It's The US of A. You see, it's all our fault. Our quest for Empire in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries. Our colonialism and our oppression the "Uncivilized beings" and "Savages" for our own gains. Please don't tell me that you've never heard the old phrase "The Sun never sets on the Ameri........." Hmmmmmm.... Wait a minute...... Regards - Wiley | ||
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manning1 Joined: 2002-04-24 Posts: 1,441 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
You'll never understand real loss and thats why you cannot empathize with the people that have lost everything as a direct result of western intervention. The oil is important thats for sure and the body bags keep flying home. Grow up you ass holes  | ||
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manning1 Joined: 2002-04-24 Posts: 1,441 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Don't you live in the West, you fucking hypocrite? Why don't you give everything you have to somebody who we've "exploited" since you're reaping the fruits that the rest of us have received I can assure treestump021486 | ||
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torrid123 Joined: 2006-04-12 Posts: 52 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
manning1 wrote:Thats your fucking problem! Why don't you get out and try a little harder? Get off your lazy ass go to school or learn a trade try and advance yourself! You have nothing because you strive for nothing. You reap what you sew and you my friend don't sew to well! Stop worrying about the muslims and the rest of the world and quit being a pathetic apologist. You weak minded people make me sick. Wah, Wah, Wah poor me, poor muslims, poor this, poor that, wake up! Open your eyes, the end is always right around the corner so you better quit whining and start living before life passes you by.  Oh yea, by the way! In that picture of the muslim guy carrying that girl is that the girls foot sticking out all mangled up like that? If so, she may have a little trouble walking on that and she may want to look into a special shoe for that in the future!
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torrid123 Joined: 2006-04-12 Posts: 52 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Manning, your a Brit aren't you? If so, how in the hell can you find the nerve to criticize any other country when yours is one of the most abusive country's in history. In pursuit of the ultimate evil empire, your country has been in the torturing and abusing business for centuries. Long before the USA was even around! Hell, the British have discriminated on just about every social, economic, and religious level known to man. You are confused my friend, very confused!
Oh, again I almost forgot! Those feet you have posted in your avatar might be the ugliest feet I have ever seen please take them down they are making me ill! | ||
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treestump021486 Joined: 2007-07-20 Posts: 183 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Quit whining about America, manning. Shit happens, OK? I mean...you sound like a total hippie douche. I'm not happy about EVERY single thing we've done. That being said, the Muslim shithead throwbacks all across the planet deserve everything they get. I'm tired of these unevolved apes who've yet to enter the 12th century, let alone the 21st. America appears to be selfish to the rest of the world because we are but I don't have a problem with that. Every country should look out for their own interests. Plus, America has done more to liberate people across the world than every other country (combined) has done in the entire history of the planet. It's amazing that a person who's from a country that perfected imperialism and colonialism is preaching to me. There are 12 Muslim on-going conflicts in the world. The only 4 that directly involve America are in bold.... This world is a harsh and unforgiving place. Bad shit happens and nobody can avoid that fact. I don't like it but that's just the way it is. | ||
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lexiluvr Joined: 2000-10-17 Posts: 1,003 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
treestump021486 wrote: Since the 40's almost all of the "conflicts" in the world have muslims involved in some way. They are the agressors but when Israel, Russia, Britain or the US defend their interests then people like Manning cry foul...sickening. | ||
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manning1 Joined: 2002-04-24 Posts: 1,441 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Thats your fucking problem! Why don't you get out and try a little harder? Get off your lazy ass go to school or learn a trade try and advance yourself! You have nothing because you strive for nothing. You reap what you sew and you my friend don't sew to well! StopO dear you really have taken on-board a very brief description I wrote and used your fantastic imagination to build a completely false picture of my life.  You reap what you sew and you my friend don't sew to well Screw me thats fucking funny  quit being a pathetic apologist.What I defend and believe in isn't pathetic so try and look at things from a more broader prospective.  wake up! Open your eyes, the end is always right around the corner so you better quit whining and start living before life passes you by. Your right life is short so I am going to get myself a Credit Card and become ridiculously in debt like the rest of society. What the hell I could get knocked down by a car tomorrow so for now on I am going to drink my self stupid like the rest of the ignorant youth and worry about the health implications when I get a little older. The trouble is that too many people don't know where they are going with there life and when we follow the crowd we think thats the secret to happiness, but this is not always so.. Even the crowd are lost and deeply unhappy subconsciously. I am pleased that I am not overly materialistic because it makes me appreciate others things in life that give me true happiness. Oh yea, by the way! In that picture of the muslim guy carrying that girl is that the girls foot sticking out all mangled up like that? If so, she may have a little trouble walking on that and she may want to look into a special shoe for that in the future! Maybe I have misunderstood that comment, but that seems like a very unkind thing to say  Manning, your a Brit aren't you? If so, how in the hell can you find the nerve to criticize any other country when yours is one of the most abusive country's in history. In pursuit of the ultimate evil empire, your country has been in the torturing and abusing business for centuries. Long before the USA was even around! Hell, the British have discriminated on just about every social, economic, and religious level known to man. You are confused my friend I'm not confused my friend and if you read some of my posts they don't just pick on America! I have also criticized the west and that covers America and Europe. My own government certainly have there corruption and I am well aware of this so please don't lecture me on history. Thats your fucking problem! Why don't you get out and try a little harder? Get off your lazy ass go to school or learn a trade try and advance yourself! I am a qualified Horticulturist and personal trainer? What the hell are you talking about. The reason why I haven't massively advanced career wise is because I haven't found the right job yet, but at least I earn money and keep an eye out for potential jobs that take my fancy. I have done lots of jobs and enjoyed the variety in many ways. Many of my jobs in the past were further away and this led me to using the train or bus. I can assure you I am not a lazy person and the ten minute walk in the morning to my current job is good for waking me up. You really are a Dipshit  | ||
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Robert1899 Joined: 2004-07-08 Posts: 571 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
There are 12 Muslim on-going conflicts in the world. The conflicts You have listed are taking place in muslim countries, but most of them are not specific muslim conflicts (in the sence of driven by a religious missionary aganda). Most of these conflicts are local conflicts about distrubution of land property, water ressources, rare jobs ect. along ethnic divisions and about the rivalry between different factions of the elites - just like the several civil wars in other, non-muslim parts of the Third World! Since the 40's almost all of the "conflicts" in the world have muslims involved in some way Since 9/11 the pattern "the west vs. islam" has become a popular paradigma. Popular because its simple and nobody wants to live under the Sharia. But it´s making people stupid. People are so obsessed by this paradigma, any war where people waer turbans is instantly considered to be a religious wars, civil wars in non-muslim countries are hardly reported in the media any more and and bunch of wierdos hiding in some afgan caves are considered as more important than the global rivalry between the real great powers like the US, the EU and China (which for example is what Dafur is really about). . | ||
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manning1 Joined: 2002-04-24 Posts: 1,441 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
civil wars in non-muslim countries are hardly reported in the media any more and and bunch of weirdos hiding in some Afghan caves are considered as more important than the global rivalry between the real great powers like the US, the EU and China (which for example is what Dafur is really about).I agree with what you say, but I don't believe those weirdos like bin laden are hiding in Afghan caves anymore. Its all a load of bullshit western propaganda in order to warp our perception of reality. The elite around the world feed the indigenous population with information that is mixed with genuine truth and clever lies and this makes it hard to grasp what is reality. | ||
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Spoof Joined: 2000-06-05 Posts: 347 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Don't you live in the West, you fucking hypocrite? Why don't you give everything you have to somebody who we've "exploited" since you're reaping the fruits that the rest of us have received I can assure treestump021486 LOL...that explains why you are such a miserable little shit. The 'dream' eluding you is it, Manning? Getting lost in the rat race? Jealous of the more successful around you? It is everyone's fault for your mediocrity? Grow the fvck up you pathetic little weasel. There are those of us that are successful and worked hard for it and there will always be you sniveling little whiners that won't ever get it. Do the 'west' a favor--find a high bridge and jump. | ||
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Robert1899 Joined: 2004-07-08 Posts: 571 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
I don't believe those weirdos like bin laden are hiding in Afghan caves anyway.Hm, I think Al Keida is real and it is a threat. By arming the backwards in Afganistan in the 80s (against a progressive government that existed in Kabul at that time!) the US and the Saudis created a Frankenstein and this Frankenstein will be around now for the years to come. The elite around the world feed the indigenous population with information that is mixed with genuine truth and clever lies and this makes it hard to grasp what is reality.True, but on the other hand the internet provides new opportunities for non-profit, non-corporate news networks and news ressources. The following link might be interesting for You. It´s the most comprehensive (non-government and non-corporate) archiv of english language news and analysis of global politics I´ve found so far: Global Policy Forum | ||
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SuperFizzyLizzy Joined: 2006-10-17 Posts: 995 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
"LOL...that explains why you are such a miserable little shit. The 'dream' eluding you is it, Manning? Getting lost in the rat race? Jealous of the more successful around you? It is everyone's fault for your mediocrity? Grow the fvck up you pathetic little weasel. There are those of us that are successful and worked hard for it and there will always be you sniveling little whiners that won't ever get it. Do the 'west' a favor--find a high bridge and jump."
Spoof, you are the textbook definition of a Internet tough guy. Let Manning live his life the way he wants to. You don't like the way he lives? That's fine. You don't have to live his life. He does. So just go back to your life and enjoy it and let Manning live his. | ||
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manning1 Joined: 2002-04-24 Posts: 1,441 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
LOL...that explains why you are such a miserable little shit. The 'dream' eluding you is it, Manning? Getting lost in the rat race? Jealous of the more successful around you? It is everyone's fault for your mediocrity? Grow the fvck up you pathetic little weasel. There are those of us that are successful and worked hard for it and there will always be you sniveling little whiners that won't ever get it. Do the 'west' a favor--find a high bridge and jump.This is pure comedy I can assure you that if someone is making better money than me and achieving better in there career then I am pleased for them and certainly not jealous.  My main worry is that some people have become obsessed with money and materialism and this simply is not me. I like some materialism in my life, but more than often I love the simply things in life. Grow the fvck up you pathetic little weaselNo thanks you jumped up little yank!  Now thats funny | ||
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manning1 Joined: 2002-04-24 Posts: 1,441 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Hm, I think Al Keida is real and it is a threat. By arming the backwards in Afganistan in the 80s (against a progressive government that existed in Kabul at that time!) the US and the Saudis created a Frankenstein and this Frankenstein will be around now for the years to come. I agree with you and disagree to a certain extent. If theres any crazy people out there who believe that Britain is only in Afghanistan because of the dangerous terrorists then there mad. Its business as usual for the west and while we call the taliban terrorists they are fighting Britain and America on there own soil. I would say that makes them freedom fighters who clearly don't want Britain and America there and also a pro America leader like Hamid Karzai in power. | ||
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Robert1899 Joined: 2004-07-08 Posts: 571 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
... they are fighting Britain and America on there own soil. I wouldn´t call them "freedom fighters". I think there´s a huge difference between anticolonial movements in the past, and this djihardism, that came up since the late 70s. Anticolonial movemts usually had some kind of progressive, modernizing domestic agenda, the not only wanted to kick out the colonial powers, they also wanted to get rid of what was repressive in their own traditional societies. Islamism instaed is based on a medieval coran-interpretation, lead by backwards tribal leaders and conservative scholars and sponsored by Saudi Arabia (US-ally by the way). I mean look, what the talibal had done to the Afganistan in the 90s! | ||
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manning1 Joined: 2002-04-24 Posts: 1,441 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
Hi Robert 1899
Years of conflict from outsiders has left Afghanistan poor and desperate. The only source of useful wealth is from opium production and this continues only because dealers from the west are happy to hand there money over for this raw material. | ||
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Antonio Juan Fargas Joined: 2004-01-05 Posts: 14 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
I really don't think anybody has hatred for Muslims as individuals. It is the Islamic religion that creates fear. And it's not just the Islamic radicals that have interpreted their religion as glorifying them for using children as suicide bombers and for beheading innocent civilians. There is a degree of barbarism and intolerance remaining in Islam that Christianity put behind centuries ago. Witness for example the fact that women are treated as subhuman. http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/17/saudi.rape.victim/index.html Saudi court ups punishment for gang-rape victimStory Highlights Woman, 19, gets six months prison, 200 lashes for meeting with unrelated man Group of seven raped her and the man, from whom she was retrieving photos After lawyer protests light sentences, rapists' sentences increased Victim's punishment doubled for talking to the media (CNN) -- A court in Saudi Arabia increased the punishment for a gang-rape victim after her lawyer won an appeal of the sentence for the rapists, the lawyer told CNN. The 19-year-old victim was sentenced last year to 90 lashes for meeting with an unrelated male, a former friend from whom she was retrieving photographs. The seven rapists, who abducted the pair, received sentences ranging from 10 months to five years in prison. The victim's attorney, Abdulrahman al-Lahim, contested the rapists' sentence, contending there is a fatwa, or edict under Islamic law, that considers such crimes Hiraba (sinful violent crime) and the punishment should be death. "After a year, the preliminary court changed the punishment and made it two to nine years for the defendants," al-Lahim said of the new decision handed down Wednesday. "However, we were shocked that they also changed the victim's sentence to be six months in prison and 200 lashes." The judges more than doubled the punishment for the victim because of "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media," according to a source quoted by Arab News, an English-language Middle Eastern daily newspaper. Judge Saad al-Muhanna from the Qatif General Court also barred al-Lahim from defending his client and revoked his law license, al-Lahim said. The attorney has been ordered to attend a disciplinary hearing at the Ministry of Justice next month. Al-Lahim said he is appealing the decision to bar him from representing the victim and has a meeting with Justice Minister Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Ibrahim Al Al-Sheikh on Monday. Don't Miss Saudi King's U.K. visit draws protests "Currently she doesn't have a lawyer, and I feel they're doing this to isolate her and deprive her from her basic rights," al-Lahim said. "We will not accept this judgment and I'll do my best to continue representing her because justice needs to take place." Al-Lahim said he wanted the Justice Ministry to take "a very clear standing" on the case, saying the decision is "judicial mutiny against reform that King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz started and against Saudi women who are being victimized because of such decisions." Women are subject to numerous restrictions in Saudi Arabia, including a strict dress code, a prohibition against driving and the need for a man's permission to travel or have surgery. Women are also not allowed to testify in court unless it is about a private matter that was not observed by a man, and they are not allowed to vote. The Saudi government recently has taken some steps toward bettering the situation of women in the kingdom, including the establishment earlier this year of special courts to handle domestic abuse cases, adoption of a new labor law that addresses working women's rights, and creation of a human rights
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Antonio Juan Fargas Joined: 2004-01-05 Posts: 14 Files: 0 Thanked: 0 Downloaded: 0 Uploaded: 0 |
And let me just add that YUKU sucks the big one. I have no idea why the spaces were excluded from my post or why I can't edit it.
Here's the link http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/17/saudi.rape.victim/index.html Saudi court ups punishment for gang-rape victimStory Highlights Woman, 19, gets six months prison, 200 lashes for meeting with unrelated man Group of seven raped her and the man, from whom she was retrieving photos After lawyer protests light sentences, rapists' sentences increased Victim's punishment doubled for talking to the media Next Article in World » (CNN) -- A court in Saudi Arabia increased the punishment for a gang-rape victim after her lawyer won an appeal of the sentence for the rapists, the lawyer told CNN. The 19-year-old victim was sentenced last year to 90 lashes for meeting with an unrelated male, a former friend from whom she was retrieving photographs. The seven rapists, who abducted the pair, received sentences ranging from 10 months to five years in prison. The victim's attorney, Abdulrahman al-Lahim, contested the rapists' sentence, contending there is a fatwa, or edict under Islamic law, that considers such crimes Hiraba (sinful violent crime) and the punishment should be death. "After a year, the preliminary court changed the punishment and made it two to nine years for the defendants," al-Lahim said of the new decision handed down Wednesday. "However, we were shocked that they also changed the victim's sentence to be six months in prison and 200 lashes." The judges more than doubled the punishment for the victim because of "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media," according to a source quoted by Arab News, an English-language Middle Eastern daily newspaper. Judge Saad al-Muhanna from the Qatif General Court also barred al-Lahim from defending his client and revoked his law license, al-Lahim said. The attorney has been ordered to attend a disciplinary hearing at the Ministry of Justice next month. Al-Lahim said he is appealing the decision to bar him from representing the victim and has a meeting with Justice Minister Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Ibrahim Al Al-Sheikh on Monday. Don't Miss Saudi King's U.K. visit draws protests "Currently she doesn't have a lawyer, and I feel they're doing this to isolate her and deprive her from her basic rights," al-Lahim said. "We will not accept this judgment and I'll do my best to continue representing her because justice needs to take place." Al-Lahim said he wanted the Justice Ministry to take "a very clear standing" on the case, saying the decision is "judicial mutiny against reform that King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz started and against Saudi women who are being victimized because of such decisions." Women are subject to numerous restrictions in Saudi Arabia, including a strict dress code, a prohibition against driving and the need for a man's permission to travel or have surgery. Women are also not allowed to testify in court unless it is about a private matter that was not observed by a man, and they are not allowed to vote. The Saudi government recently has taken some steps toward bettering the situation of women in the kingdom, including the establishment earlier this year of special courts to handle domestic abuse cases, adoption of a new labor law that addresses working women's rights, and creation of a human rights commission. | ||
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